Posts by Cold Steel

36

How ballroom dancing helped our exit

by Finally Left in

just wanted to say hello and thank you for all of your comments.

when i finally figured out this was not the truth it was nice to know i wasn't the only one - it was a surprise to learn how many there are.

february was my last month of service after 43 active years.

Cold Steel

I'm always interested in hearing why people, after years of loyal service, finally leave. And I'm amazed at how often it goes back to the 1914 thing. But isn't it really more of a 1918 thing? It doesn't really matter if someone's math is accurate, but in 1918, the seminal event was Jesus' acceptance of the Society as his. That's the most important issue in the history of the movement. Without this invisible, unverifiable event, the Society would be no more than another manmade organization in a sea of them. Just another grain of sand on the beach, another bird in the flock.

But that's not how they bill themselves. They bill themselves as "the" only true organization. Their members are resurrected to peace and joy, and those who don't accept them or their claims are doomed to destruction. So the inspection of other world religions and his choosing of the Bible Students is the ONE event that makes all the difference. Everything stems from that event. The only thing wrong with it is that it places God in a passive position. Anciently, when God wanted something done, He initiated it. Jesus called the apostles, ordained them, gave Peter the keys of the kingdom, that whatso he should bind on Earth would be bound in Heaven and vice versa.

With the Jehovah's Witnesses, the organization is formed first and the choosing comes second, the exact opposite to how it occurred anciently. So 1914 is not the key year. Before that, it was 1844. Both the adventists (William Miller and his followers) and the JWs then became fixated on 1914, but it wasn't until 1918 that it received its legitimacy as a religion by being accepted by the Almighty.

So now that you're leaving the religion, is this going to cause any family problems...any shunning...or are you going to keep it low key? It'll only be a matter of time before the elders track you down.

BTW, I want to hear the rest of the story ASAP with all the details.

47

Trump pulls out of Paris Agreement -

by AFRIKANMAN in

jw
friends

would like to see your responses ~.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/live/2017/jun/01/donald-trump-paris-climate-agreement-live-news.

kapitan kovfefe is a man of his word - well ...twisted word ~ .

Cold Steel

Hothabanero is exactly correct in every detail. Trump has been unfairly treated by the media and by the idiot "journalists" who learned to spell "unnamed sources" but never learned the meaning of "objectivity."

I am disappointed that his budget cuts weren't more substantial and I'm disappointed about his not moving the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Peace is impossible in the Middle East and the Palestinians aren't going to give an iota in making things better.

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Stillin » David should have been stoned to death for his liaison with The bathing lady. If Jehovah always preferred that there should be one husband and one wife, why didn't He say so? Why were there false prophets? Who could say which was which? Did people have to die before they realized that it was a false prophet?

Yes, David was guilty of murder and must suffer in Hell for his sins. He writes: "Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (Psalm 16:9-19) We don't know the entire extent of his punishment, but this scripture indicates that either 1) Hell does not last forever, or 2) God lets some people off, but not others. Logic dictates the former. In one of our scriptures, the Lord states: "David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another." In short, he paid a substantial price for his sin.

Being an animal enthusiast, what was killing animals at the temple really about? Could there not have been some better way to show your love for God?

Killing animals bothers me, too, as I'm a big animal lover. That said, animals have spirits, just as we do, and the Lord uses them as teaching tools to symbolize the death and sacrifice of His Son. The lamb without blemish and the fatted calf -- all point the way to the sacrifice of Christ. I choose not to second guess the Lord as I don't know all the facts leading into the stories of the Bible. And in the ones I do, the Lord has always been more than exonerated.

Because mankind is being tried and tested, much of what he's expected to learn on Earth is to love and help his fellow man, to offer him a hand up. The Lord can intervene when he chooses, but how and why he does that is something he keeps to himself, and it's not our place to sit in judgment of God; however, he can sit in judgment of us because he knows all the details and he knows what's in our hearts and minds. To attempt to judge God when we don't know all the facts, is to put us in danger of the judgment ourselves.

Island Man » There is another text in the NT where it mentions the qualifications for elders and it says that if a man does not have children in subjection then he is unfit to serve as an overseer in the congregation because if he can't manage his own household then cannot manage the household of god. This scripture again highlights the hypocrisy of the god of the bible. The bible shows that god cannot manage his own household because a third of the angels rebelled against his authority.

Again, we have no idea of the details leading up to the war in Heaven. We know that the Lord respects free agency and we also know that those of our brethren who rebelled were thrust down to the earth as spirits while the rest of us came here to live out our lives and then return. Those who rebelled made their choice and God respected their free agency. But they lost their place in Heaven and their future opportunities.

God has managed his household in a fair and equitable manner and two thirds of us chose to continue on, while a third rejected God's plan and are paying the price. It wasn't that we didn't understand the issues; it had nothing to do with God's rulership over us.

6

Moving experience told in the assembly "cart work".

by James Mixon in

remember in the 60's and 70's experiences told in our assemblies, "i was a hippie long hair homeless,drugs and etc, now i wear a suit don't smoke or do drugs and happy as hell.

anyone heard any experiences lately in the assemblies?????

how about i was homeless and i walked up to this cart, the two women ignored me as i stood at the cart.

Cold Steel

James Mixon » Remember in the 60's and 70's experiences told in our assemblies, "I was a hippie long hair homeless,drugs and etc, now I wear a suit don't smoke or do drugs and happy as hell. Anyone heard any experiences lately...?

Yes, two.

I've heard, "I was a JW, had short hair, didn't smoke, wore a suit and lived in a pre-fab at the counsel of our leaders. Now I don't wear a suit, smoke like a chimney, have lost myself in a world full of drugs, live where the Society can't find me and am happy as Hell!" But I've also heard comments from those who love and appreciate the Society. One said right here, "That babe in the bunker videos was really hot!"

So the Society has had a profound intellectual and spiritual effect on all sides.

Bunker Babe's Revenge is slated to be released in September. Elaine and her entire family, betrayed by the evil apostate Brother Brown, has been condemned to live out the rest of their days slaving in the salt mines of New Teevor, in West India. Having escaped her armed guards with the help of apostates Jookbeard and Joe134CD, and armed with a spear of the Ancestors and her shield of invincibility, she possesses a headdress of visibility which enabled her to see the invisible return of Jesus in 1914 and the selection of the elect in 1918. Through the headdress, she also discovers Brother Brown's treachery and travels halfway around the world to free her family and exact revenge on Brother Brown, who, we learn, has been forcing JWs to give blood donations every six months.

It's supposed to be a great action film. She also has a glowing lasso that forces ordinary people to be faithful JWs while entrapped in its cords and to believe everything the Governing Body publishes. Its insidious effects last for 24 hours.

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

So if you're a gung ho convert, or you seek to sit at the feet of the elders in your congregation and show them you'll continue to be a toadie after your appointment, you've got greater chance of being made an elder.

For those of you who were elders, if you traveled to a different Kingdom Hall, did you visit as just a regular old member, or did you find a way of letting them know you were an elder in your conversations with them?

That makes me wonder what would happen if someone visited a KH and told people he was an elder. Had that ever happened? (It happened in my church. There was a guy in California who set himself as an expert on scripture. He would visit the various churches, give firesides on the Dead Sea Scrolls. He would read the writings of actual scholars, make outrageous claims and drop their names as though he rubbed elbows with them. He would let people record his talks and firesides and cassettes were going all over the state. He would stay with members, be taken out for expensive dinners, was treated like one of our premier scholars and went from one place to another. He had slides of Dead Sea Scroll strips and was a total fraud! Of course none of the real scholars he cited had ever heard of him. So people can be strange, to say the least.)

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Pete Zahut » According to the Bible, god decided to purposely curse all of future mankind based on what Adam and Eve did, rather than to either forgive them or kill them off before they had any children.

According to some religions, the fall of Adam and Eve was carefully planned. God never intended that man should live in a garden, forever stupid. It was imperative that man fell and that it be Adam and Eve's doing. In the Garden, man was not capable of becoming like God. Only through the fall could man gain the knowledge of good and evil. He also had to become subject to death because if he became immortal in that state, he would be cursed to an eternity with a body not capable of channeling the glory he could in a resurrected body. As Father Kallistos Ware wrote in The Orthodox Way, "God became man so that man could become God." The apostle John wrote: "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Doubtfull1799 » I HAVE taken courses in OT theology and it doesn't change the fact that God did not always warn people before destroying or king them - remember Uzzah for example? 2 Sam 6:7.

Yes, I remember Uzzah. And he knew the restrictions against handling the ark, something only the priests were permitted to do. He and the other escorts had been duly warned about this restriction and the people then had become lax. Also, you don't know what was in Uzzah's mind or his heart. God did.

One scholar writes: "In all the excitement connected with the moving of the Ark to Jerusalem, the Levite priests make a serious procedural mistake. Sever hundred years of apostasy had so cluttered the pattern of ritual that they did not even remember how the Ark was to be carried. Instead of having certain priests carry the Ark on their shoulders, as required by the Lord, the sacred structure was put upon a 'new cart' drawn by oxen. Apparently David did not know an error of ritual had occurred. We conclude this from the fact that he later placed the blame for what happened on the shoulders of the priests themselves." He concludes: "Apparently the Lord saw an opportunity to impress these people in a sudden and dramatic way that sacred patterns laid down by divine revelations should be respected and carefully followed. These were harsh days and the 'schoolmaster' law was enjoined upon the people with severe strictness calculated to serve as sort of a yoke to bind them to righteousness. God's purpose was not to shackle them but teach them a rhythm of obedience."

Again, you have to know what was in everyone's mind and what the situation was. In the end, though, we'll see it was just.

Regarding the others that were killed, as mentioned by Tor, we also have to remember that they don't cease to exist (as the JWs teach). Their spirits continue to live even though their bodies return to the dust. As mortals, we don't have the right to take life at our own discretion. In David's case, he killed so wantonly that the Lord kept him from building the temple and gave that honor to his son, Solomon.

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Waton » The idea was, that if you lived by wt rules to a t, you cemented your right to be in heaven.

If I'm not mistaken, if you're anointed, you're born that way. It's not something you can aspire to.

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Londo111 » JWs do not have have personal religious beliefs. They have to believe what the Governing Body (aka Faithful Slave) tells them to believe. They have to behave as the Slave tells them to behave. Or else.

That's amazing. What happens if you don't believe a particular interpretation or you have a differing interpretation? If you're in a class and say, "Couldn't Paul have meant [fill in the blank] rather than [Watchtower teaching]?" Then you point out that the FDS has said it's not inspired and in some cases could be wrong? Would you be called on it then or later would you get laywaid by an elder?

JWs have to be ready to embrace "new light" at any time, even if it is a major leap from the old light.

Okay. You're in a class. Some "new light" is being discussed and you mention that you had always believed the new teaching, but had been "counseled" for teaching it in a class two years before. Would that cause trouble or would people be impressed that you were ahead of the curve?

The churches of Christ have a saying that goes: "Where the Bible speaks, we speak; and where the Bible is silent, we are silent." Are you saying that the Society has a set interpretation for every single passage in the Bible??

"At that time, the life-saving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not."

Hmmm...that completely makes no sense because it clearly implies that they get help from on high in their decisions. Again, they've said they receive no revelation like the apostles did, nor are they inspired. So how can they say that, then say the above? What they're saying here is that they're connected, plugged in, if you will, to the Holy Spirit, but at the same time they don't receive revelation. They can't have it both ways.

Can they??

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Doubtfull1799 » The anointed ones are no longer members of the F&DS - this was a recent change of doctrine (in 2013 I think), only the GB are now the F&DS.

For years the heavenly class was billed as Jehovah's administrative arm. They were to be resurrected as glorified spirits while everyone else was part of the great crowd, destined to be resurrected in physical non-glorified bodies that, while immortal, are greatly limited in where and how they can go.

The JW artists depict them as smiling, having reunions, petting lions and playing musical instruments. But there are no roads or motor vehicles...just people. Meanwhile, those who are of the anointed class are more like God than humans (1 John 3:2). For some reason, they, like the resurrected Jesus, can make themselves physical beings or spiritual beings, traverse and comprehend the Universe and greatly transcend the abilities of those on Earth. Why should these people be subject to the earthly elders when they are destined to so much more?

If I were part of the heavenly/anointed class, I'd be asking who the Governing Body is to exclude me? After all, GB members are my colleagues, right? And in the world to come, my destiny is so much more than most elders, who are destined to a mere earthly existence. If I'm subject to the same chain of command, why is my eternal destiny so much more?

It's quite a change in doctrine.

Londo111 » Elders are expected to keep an eye on “the flock,” head off trouble if they see someone who may be “going astray”-- and that is, those who aren’t complying with the written and unwritten rules of the Watchtower. Growing a beard, going to a school dance, considering higher education, dating without a chaperone, not reporting enough hours, ect…

Amazing.

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Yes, and you quote Dawkins to prove it.

Sorry, I'd be more impressed if you'd taken the theology course.

Here's a review of Hitchen's work. Many are the same arguments as used by Dawkins.

Daniel C. Peterson
God and Mr. Hitchens

https://youtu.be/slQEE1BAqmA

Richard Dawkins and The Question of Translation